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	<title>Comments on: On Blinded by Hatred</title>
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	<link>http://perbylund.com/blog/2007/09/on-blinded-by-hatred/</link>
	<description>Colliding Softly with the World of Ideas</description>
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		<title>By: Colliding Softly &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Driven by Fear</title>
		<link>http://perbylund.com/blog/2007/09/on-blinded-by-hatred/comment-page-1/#comment-278</link>
		<dc:creator>Colliding Softly &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Driven by Fear</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 14:39:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.perbylund.com/blog/?p=23#comment-278</guid>
		<description>[...] a fascination for the rhetoric, logic and politics of war. I have previously discussed so-called pro-war libertarians and their contradictory standpoints. However, there is a much more generally accepted view of the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] a fascination for the rhetoric, logic and politics of war. I have previously discussed so-called pro-war libertarians and their contradictory standpoints. However, there is a much more generally accepted view of the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Per Bylund</title>
		<link>http://perbylund.com/blog/2007/09/on-blinded-by-hatred/comment-page-1/#comment-56</link>
		<dc:creator>Per Bylund</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Oct 2007 00:53:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.perbylund.com/blog/?p=23#comment-56</guid>
		<description>Responding to frimarknadsanarkist:
That&#039;s right, one cannot trade &quot;a little&quot; freedom for security. As I mention in my response to rightsaidfred, moral values and convictions cannot be traded, measured, or compared.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Responding to frimarknadsanarkist:<br />
That&#8217;s right, one cannot trade &#8220;a little&#8221; freedom for security. As I mention in my response to rightsaidfred, moral values and convictions cannot be traded, measured, or compared.</p>
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		<title>By: Per Bylund</title>
		<link>http://perbylund.com/blog/2007/09/on-blinded-by-hatred/comment-page-1/#comment-55</link>
		<dc:creator>Per Bylund</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Oct 2007 00:52:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.perbylund.com/blog/?p=23#comment-55</guid>
		<description>Responding to rightsaidfred:
I think you are both right and wrong in saying that we &quot;will always have to compromise to the &#039;collective&#039;&quot;. You are right in the sense that every individual interacting with other individuals will have to find ways of doing so in a manner that potential trading partners and others find attractive, or at least &quot;not offensive.&quot; 

But what we are saying here is simply that each individual choosing to interact with other people is automatically acting in a social context. This social context, which essentially is an aggregate of the individuals&#039; likes and dislikes, acts in a way that is &quot;limiting&quot; on the individual through making sure it is clear that some actions are costly whereas other actions are profitable. Insulting people, for instance, limits your future chances of making friends or trade with the people you insult as well as people who are offended by or disapprove of your insults. 

Such a compromise is not, however, a compromise &quot;to the collective.&quot; Rather, it is compromise, choosing certain actions above others, made to maximize one&#039;s chances of achieving whatever goals one might have. Such compromise is not for or to the collective, they are self-enforced and self-chosen restrictions in nothing but self-interest. Yes, such restrictions may mean you do not act in every way possible - but certainly no one ever acts in every way possible. And choosing what is best for you based on your own judgment is certainly not a limit of freedom.

You are wrong in the sense that one has to compromise with one&#039;s principles. As is the case with the &quot;restrictions&quot; discussed above, individualist principles are very much compatible with social contexts and interaction. There is no need whatsoever to compromise with one&#039;s rights just to have the possibility of interacting in &quot;a collective&quot;. 

I personally believe principles are important, not only in their power to motivate, inspire and guide people in acting and interacting with others. Principles are also important because they are fundamental building blocks in what makes up the individual&#039;s morality and philosophical convictions. Principles cannot be compromised - if they are, then they aren&#039;t principles.

True principles don&#039;t consist of taking sides in conflict, but essentially means making judgments and finding a consistent, non-contradictory guiding moral principle in one&#039;s life. A principle cannot be compromised without losing the whole point of having one. Also, a principle cannot be to take a stand against something - principles don&#039;t contradict each other. All principles, if they are true, go together. Part of the reason they do, is that they are non-contradictory - and that every individual may find his or her own guiding principles. 

Contradictions occur only when principles are false, such as when being against rather than being for something, or when some individual claims to have a superior principle that all other individuals must adopt (read: collectivism).

The reason principles are non-contradictory is that they are based on the individual&#039;s fundamental values and moral convictions. And fundamental values cannot be structured in a hierarchy where some can and should be compromised or stricken for the good of a contradictory and &quot;better&quot; value. If values seem to be contradictory something is wrong. If you find yourself in such a situation you should check your premises.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Responding to rightsaidfred:<br />
I think you are both right and wrong in saying that we &#8220;will always have to compromise to the &#8216;collective&#8217;&#8221;. You are right in the sense that every individual interacting with other individuals will have to find ways of doing so in a manner that potential trading partners and others find attractive, or at least &#8220;not offensive.&#8221; </p>
<p>But what we are saying here is simply that each individual choosing to interact with other people is automatically acting in a social context. This social context, which essentially is an aggregate of the individuals&#8217; likes and dislikes, acts in a way that is &#8220;limiting&#8221; on the individual through making sure it is clear that some actions are costly whereas other actions are profitable. Insulting people, for instance, limits your future chances of making friends or trade with the people you insult as well as people who are offended by or disapprove of your insults. </p>
<p>Such a compromise is not, however, a compromise &#8220;to the collective.&#8221; Rather, it is compromise, choosing certain actions above others, made to maximize one&#8217;s chances of achieving whatever goals one might have. Such compromise is not for or to the collective, they are self-enforced and self-chosen restrictions in nothing but self-interest. Yes, such restrictions may mean you do not act in every way possible &#8211; but certainly no one ever acts in every way possible. And choosing what is best for you based on your own judgment is certainly not a limit of freedom.</p>
<p>You are wrong in the sense that one has to compromise with one&#8217;s principles. As is the case with the &#8220;restrictions&#8221; discussed above, individualist principles are very much compatible with social contexts and interaction. There is no need whatsoever to compromise with one&#8217;s rights just to have the possibility of interacting in &#8220;a collective&#8221;. </p>
<p>I personally believe principles are important, not only in their power to motivate, inspire and guide people in acting and interacting with others. Principles are also important because they are fundamental building blocks in what makes up the individual&#8217;s morality and philosophical convictions. Principles cannot be compromised &#8211; if they are, then they aren&#8217;t principles.</p>
<p>True principles don&#8217;t consist of taking sides in conflict, but essentially means making judgments and finding a consistent, non-contradictory guiding moral principle in one&#8217;s life. A principle cannot be compromised without losing the whole point of having one. Also, a principle cannot be to take a stand against something &#8211; principles don&#8217;t contradict each other. All principles, if they are true, go together. Part of the reason they do, is that they are non-contradictory &#8211; and that every individual may find his or her own guiding principles. </p>
<p>Contradictions occur only when principles are false, such as when being against rather than being for something, or when some individual claims to have a superior principle that all other individuals must adopt (read: collectivism).</p>
<p>The reason principles are non-contradictory is that they are based on the individual&#8217;s fundamental values and moral convictions. And fundamental values cannot be structured in a hierarchy where some can and should be compromised or stricken for the good of a contradictory and &#8220;better&#8221; value. If values seem to be contradictory something is wrong. If you find yourself in such a situation you should check your premises.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Kaercher</title>
		<link>http://perbylund.com/blog/2007/09/on-blinded-by-hatred/comment-page-1/#comment-52</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Kaercher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2007 23:45:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.perbylund.com/blog/?p=23#comment-52</guid>
		<description>RightSaidFred: Yes, if a principle is true in one circumstance, it&#039;s true in all circumstances, such as individual rights. The &quot;I drive down an open highway&quot; analogy is a bad one insofar as it doesn&#039;t prove your point. What you describe as &quot;compromise&quot; is mutual cooperation. Traveling on roads and highways--such as they are, monopolized by government--people understand that in order to reach their desired destination it is in their own best interest to respect the like right of others. It is, in fact, an example of mutual respect for individual rights in action. 

In any war--be it in Iraq or any other--one group of individuals--that being those in control of the state--decide on behalf of everyone when it is appropriate to go to war to &quot;fight for our way of life,&quot; and they commit the resources of others to that enterprise regardless of whether anyone else deems it necessary or not. (The loot, of course, winds up in the coffers of the Halliburtons, Boeings, and other &quot;defense&quot; contractors, and the rest of us are poorer for it, and no more safe than before the war.) This is an example of a violation of individual rights in action.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RightSaidFred: Yes, if a principle is true in one circumstance, it&#8217;s true in all circumstances, such as individual rights. The &#8220;I drive down an open highway&#8221; analogy is a bad one insofar as it doesn&#8217;t prove your point. What you describe as &#8220;compromise&#8221; is mutual cooperation. Traveling on roads and highways&#8211;such as they are, monopolized by government&#8211;people understand that in order to reach their desired destination it is in their own best interest to respect the like right of others. It is, in fact, an example of mutual respect for individual rights in action. </p>
<p>In any war&#8211;be it in Iraq or any other&#8211;one group of individuals&#8211;that being those in control of the state&#8211;decide on behalf of everyone when it is appropriate to go to war to &#8220;fight for our way of life,&#8221; and they commit the resources of others to that enterprise regardless of whether anyone else deems it necessary or not. (The loot, of course, winds up in the coffers of the Halliburtons, Boeings, and other &#8220;defense&#8221; contractors, and the rest of us are poorer for it, and no more safe than before the war.) This is an example of a violation of individual rights in action.</p>
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		<title>By: frimarknadsanarkist</title>
		<link>http://perbylund.com/blog/2007/09/on-blinded-by-hatred/comment-page-1/#comment-51</link>
		<dc:creator>frimarknadsanarkist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Oct 2007 12:39:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.perbylund.com/blog/?p=23#comment-51</guid>
		<description>Great post, Per. Although I don&#039;t really use the natural rights-arguments any longer (which you seem to be doing here, vaguely), I agree with your conclusions. It seems to me like many &quot;libertarians&quot; (the bomb right, in my vocabulary) are willing to trade security for freedom - and we all know where that ends. It&#039;s a sad story. Too bad it&#039;s true.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post, Per. Although I don&#8217;t really use the natural rights-arguments any longer (which you seem to be doing here, vaguely), I agree with your conclusions. It seems to me like many &#8220;libertarians&#8221; (the bomb right, in my vocabulary) are willing to trade security for freedom &#8211; and we all know where that ends. It&#8217;s a sad story. Too bad it&#8217;s true.</p>
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		<title>By: Krigshetsande libertarianer &#171; Frimarknadsanarkist</title>
		<link>http://perbylund.com/blog/2007/09/on-blinded-by-hatred/comment-page-1/#comment-50</link>
		<dc:creator>Krigshetsande libertarianer &#171; Frimarknadsanarkist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Oct 2007 11:28:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.perbylund.com/blog/?p=23#comment-50</guid>
		<description>[...] libertarianism, mellanöstern, svensk politik &#124;  Per Bylund skriver på LRC och på sin blogg Colliding Softly om svenska krigshetsande självutnämnda libertarianer. Han skriver om hur dessa [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] libertarianism, mellanöstern, svensk politik |  Per Bylund skriver på LRC och på sin blogg Colliding Softly om svenska krigshetsande självutnämnda libertarianer. Han skriver om hur dessa [...]</p>
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		<title>By: rightsaidfred</title>
		<link>http://perbylund.com/blog/2007/09/on-blinded-by-hatred/comment-page-1/#comment-42</link>
		<dc:creator>rightsaidfred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2007 03:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.perbylund.com/blog/?p=23#comment-42</guid>
		<description>You seem to be arguing for a &quot;purity&quot; of viewpoint:  once a believer in individual rights, always a believer in individual rights.

But the real world demands some compromise.  We will always have to compromise to the &quot;collective&quot;.  

I drive down an open highway, and declare that I am exercising my individual rights to move about the countryside, but I am heavily constrained by the rules of the road.

The Iraq war might not be a good example, but we do have to be prepared to fight for our way of life, even if that includes deposing dictators who would arm and sustain international terrorists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You seem to be arguing for a &#8220;purity&#8221; of viewpoint:  once a believer in individual rights, always a believer in individual rights.</p>
<p>But the real world demands some compromise.  We will always have to compromise to the &#8220;collective&#8221;.  </p>
<p>I drive down an open highway, and declare that I am exercising my individual rights to move about the countryside, but I am heavily constrained by the rules of the road.</p>
<p>The Iraq war might not be a good example, but we do have to be prepared to fight for our way of life, even if that includes deposing dictators who would arm and sustain international terrorists.</p>
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